#48 - What does the ideal organization of tomorrow look like?

• Visit the website of Heather McGowan

• Read through Heather's articles on Forbes

• Connect with Heather on LinkedIn

• Check Heather's book:The Empathy Advantage: Leading the Empowered Workforce

• Traditional Work is Changing: Is the Future Freelance?

• Recruiting: How to find out if a candidate is remote ready

• Remote Work will change the way we earn our living
  

How to get organizations and their people ready for the future of work

With Heather McGowan, Future of work strategist, keynote speaker, author and advisor

Sandra Redlich  00:33

This is a new one for me, I usually record at my evening time because a lot of our podcast guests are based in Europe where it's better for me if it's evening, but today is morning. So Heather, where are you joining us from today?

Heather McGowan  01:43

I'm on the East Coast of the United States. I'm in Florida this time of year. I live between Florida, Boston and Provincetown. All East Coast based.

Sandra Redlich  01:51

Yeah, that's a new one for us. Well, thanks so much for taking the time and finding a time slot. And I know it's a bit difficult for these two time zones to connect and to work together. But we're making it work. Can you tell our listeners maybe a little bit about what it is that you do and how you came to doing what you do?

Heather McGowan  02:09

Sure. So the title I operate under - which is completely fabricated if I were to be honest - is I say I'm a future work strategist. And that came out of I've been speaking, I'm a keynote speaker. And so I speak about future work. And people are like, what do I call you? What do we say you are? You've written some books, you've done academic work, you've done corporate work, you've got degrees, you know, what do I refer to you as and I said, I need a title. And so we looked up, you know, one from this column, one from this column, one from this column, a fabricated title. So I have worked in the supply and demand side of human talent. So I worked in education, trying to prepare people for the workforce. I've done everything from building an undergraduate curriculum, general education curriculum for the future work to building an entire college within a university to integrate in different undergraduate majors to focus on innovation in the future of work. And then on the corporate side, that's on everything from product design, design, strategy, boutique, investment, banking, entrepreneurship, quite a lot of corporate consulting. So I saw that the academic institutions were not producing the kind of talent that we needed for the world that changed. And then the workforce didn't know how to search for, integrate, nurture, and develop the talent that they had. So I started explaining it. And then, about 10 years ago, it's sort of evolved into full time. I'm a full time explainer.

Sandra Redlich  03:39

Yeah. That's a great way of putting it there. What kind of motivated you to get into that space?

Heather McGowan  03:47

The explaining space? It really was driven by, I could see things that I understood that other people didn't see. And I'm an optimist by nature. So I saw a lot of technology folks going out there and saying the future of work was going to be you know, a useless class of humans with these artificial intelligence overlords. And I was like, You know what, that's 1) lazy and 2) not true. I think that there's a tremendous amount of human potential that we haven't unleashed. And so I started explaining so that we can adapt better, we can be more empowered, it to different audiences. And I found my explanations really connected with people, and they were motivated by them. So it evolved into a thing now that I just travel around the world. And I've been to Australia a number of times, to explain how the evolving world of work is happening, and the pandemic was just a massive accelerant to it.

Sandra Redlich  04:39

Yeah, that would have changed a lot of perspectives all around the world, even in companies probably that traditionally wouldn't change their perspectives as quickly. What do you say to these companies? What is it what they can do to prepare themselves better for the future of work, or for you know, in a way innovative ways of work? But also to support the employees to take along and prepare them for the challenges that lie ahead?

Heather McGowan  05:05

Well, I believe in being honest and authentic. So I really tell people, I'm talking about the future of work. But I'm really helping them understand the work of now. So I'm trying to help them adapt to things that have already happened and are happening to them. So future sells better than now. But it's really a lot about now. And so what I say to folks lately, and this is really the basis of my next book, which comes out March 8, which is called the empathy advantage, leading the empowered workforce, is that we've undergone two major transformations and work. And they were long in the making, but they really came to head under the pandemic for a variety of reasons. The first is a changed relationship between individuals and organizations, the great resignation, the great retirement, the great reset, the great reshuffle, the great refusal, the great relocation, those all collectively give you an empowered workforce. For much of the developed world, it's not necessarily true in places where they have youth booms, but where we have labor shortages, which is US, Europe, I believe you have it also in Australia, those labor shortages are going to continue unabated. So the power has shifted back to the individual and it over indexed really towards the employer for quite a long time. So that changes how we interact with the workforce. The second change was after 15 years of digital disruption, we've moved from linear to complex in its combination of digital disruption and globalization. So one way I explain it to people is whenever I stand in a room with executives, which I do almost every day, I say, by show of hands, how many of you have people reporting to you who have skills or knowledge you don't have? Every hand goes up, right? Because suddenly, you can't lead like an unquestioned expert driving productivity and making decisions in certainty. Because you don't know. So you have to spend your time creating the culture that has your people collaborate. So there's two transformations required for leadership shifts. The first is a shift in mindset. You're not managing process, or managing people anymore. You're enabling success. And the hard reality is, and I say this to be provocative, people don't work for you anymore, you work for them, because their success is your success. So you have to shift your thinking and like how do I make each individual in my team rise to their, you know, their potential. The second is a change in culture, from peers as competitors, to peers as collaborators, when everybody had sort of similar types of knowledge, and a fair amount of redundancy, in that knowledge, you could pit people against each other in your organization. So they would vie for your attention and your price. That doesn't work anymore. Because not only do they have knowledge skills, now you don't have the skills and knowledge that's unique to each other. So you need them to collaborate. The third is a shift in approach. So that extrinsic pressure of punishments threats and rewards won't work at the scale we need it to, for people to learn and adapt, which is going to be constantly part of work. So we need to help people get in touch with their intrinsic motivation, like what they're naturally interested in. So they start learning and adapting on their own. And then the fourth is a shift in behavior. From you know, myopically driving productivity with domination, fears and humiliation, to creating effectiveness through inspiration, through caring, love, belonging, coaching. So that's what the book is about. And that's a lot what I speak about is these two transformations and these four shifts, and it's, it's a really big lift.

Sandra Redlich  08:32

Yeah, it would be where I understand that it's a first step to, to get someone in to help and consult, and they probably think, Oh, we're doing a lot already, just by having someone discuss this with us. It's probably a big challenge, especially if you say the first shift is mindset shift, which can take a lot of time. And it's something that, you know, you can fall back into your mindset, as well. So I would assume that it's a very big challenge. Do you follow up on companies as well? Do you kind of hold their hand along the process and guide them in a daily life?

Heather McGowan  09:11

Yeah, some organizations will have me come in and speak once and then I go away. And you know, I hope they do well. Other organizations when they come in, and they'll have me speak to one group, and they'll go, Okay, we really need you to speak to this other group, so that everybody has the same experience in the same information. And they're like, now we can start working on it, because we have at least a common understanding. So I'll go into the same company like, three, four or five, six times to different divisions or to have different aspects of the conversation. So it's a process of accepting a mindset shift and then trying to go I think, what does that really mean to us? And I'm going to be working on some trainings around that but so far, there's a book and a series of talks about it.

Sandra Redlich  09:50

Yeah. And we will have the book definitely as well as some talks and information where you can find more about this on in our show notes as well. So make sure to check those out. How can these companies support their employees to bring out the best in them without using these old kind of stereotypical pressures and ways to drive a workforce? Is it something that needs to be accepted and researched very early on, like maybe even with a young workforce that is just entering?

Heather McGowan  10:28

I think it's actually really relatively simple. It's like, just be a human. I know, it sounds a little squishy, but I just did a talk and workshop this past week, or last week, with a fortune 100 company. And this was like my fourth or fifth time speaking to them. So I knew a lot of people there, they knew the kinds of things I spoke about in the workshop portion of it. Somebody had an epiphany. And it seems like an odd epiphany. They said, I didn't really know my people before, when I was really just managing process and I was a taskmaster, I would just say, Is this done, is that done, where we were, that's where we've at. And I didn't really know anything about the people. And now if I need to motivate them based on their own intrinsic, you know, drive, I have to get to know, I have to learn more about them, I have to be you know, to be a coach, you really need to know the levers to pull to help your people motivate themselves. And that was, it was funny, I think some ways funny, big epiphany for folks. And then it's not what we've socialized folks to do. As leaders, we've socialized folks, we've rewarded some sociopathic behavior, you know, if you can make hard decisions and certainty, and you can, you know, lay off people overnight. And if you can make these hard decisions, and you can drive people to sleep in the office, somehow you are praised. And now the zeitgeist is really in the other direction.

Sandra Redlich  11:56

What are some of these factors that people are demanding now from their leaders, what is something that you find young workforce people entering the market are looking for, from a good employer and how they want to be treated?

Heather McGowan  12:12

They want flexibility, most of them. In not only where they work, which is contentious for some folks, because they want people in the office for eight hours and what have you. But you know how and when they work. That's something that I think is going to be a struggle to figure out over the next few years. And then the other thing they want is, what does this company stand for, like Gallup latest data on engagement, which was not great. We've dropped, this is the US numbers, they've dropped 2% on engagement each of the last two years and risen 2% on disengagement these last two years. And when they asked folks why, one of the reasons that was consistent across all groups was I don't know the company's mission or vision, I don't know what they care about. So it's hard for me to care about what I do, if I don't know what they care about. And then it was other things like I don't feel respected, I don't feel like I belong, I don't feel like there's opportunities for advancement, I don't feel like anybody cares about me, they were all very emotional things. They weren't not enough pay or insufficient benefits, you know, they were very much the human things people are looking at getting from work. So when I say be human, I mean it. I mean, that's seems to be what people are looking for. And that's human connection. You know, David Allison's recent book Value Graphics surveyed 750,000 people worldwide to understand what the top 50 some odd values are, that we all share. And of his top 10 lists in the world in the US, and almost every country, the top, three to five of them are all togetherness values, with belonging being one. So it's clear, we run on connection. And it's clear that people are looking for more of that with work. They're not looking for work to become their family. Let's not play that game, because I think that is manipulative. But they're looking for it to be a community. And they're looking for it to be an expression of their values, and a place where they feel like they connect and belong.

Sandra Redlich  14:11

Now my next question is probably going to be - it's a thought experiment. But I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this, as people see that they have to change the way they approach leadership and performance based management of people. It could be very tempting to set up a front. That's a very harsh way of putting it, but I'm thinking for somebody, my thought process is you can present yourself as very community oriented and open and human in multiple ways without really making the change process because I can imagine if you are based on, if your whole identity of leading people is based on these old values, on the way you've been told to do it and the way you've been rewarded to do it, you can't change that overnight. And especially not if it's a big company, big corporations, it goes pretty deep, the roots are in the ground pretty deeply. So how can employees make sure that when they're going in for an interview, or they're starting a new position somewhere, they can... Like, are there any red flags? Basically, I think that's the core of my question, any red flags that you could look out for? To make sure that you're not being human washed? Or that the company is not, you know, presenting themselves in a way and then you enter a company and realize, ah, actually, what they've sold is not really what I'm getting here.

Heather McGowan  15:43

Yeah, you know, again, as being a bit of a belligerent optimist, I think if they're human washed, I think is a take on greenwashing or something like that, right? 

Heather McGowan  15:52

If they're human washing, they're making hopefully the first steps, like you talk the talk before you walk the walk. So if they're starting a, b, I'll get behind anybody who's trying to change. If you're trying to deceive, people are gonna see through that in a second. You just can't hold up the facade for too long. But if you're trying to talk the talk until you can get folks to walk, they'll often give them a chance. Where do you look for red flags? Honestly, look how they treat people. I'm really disappointed with how the tech sector has managed layoffs. You can lay off people in a humane way. And you can lay off people in an inhumane way. And I don't know why they picked an inhumane way, it doesn't really cost you any more. But it's going to cost you in the long run, because we have a labor shortage. And those people you laid off are going to be hired by somebody and now they trust less than they used to. And trust is the most important thing in an organization.

Sandra Redlich  15:52

Yes

Sandra Redlich  16:46

I think that's something very interesting that we need to have an eye on for the future to see how will that affect them for getting new talent in because you know, people remember. People don't forget, people talk and especially in such a tight knit community as the tech world, I think it'll be very interesting to see, you know, is that going to come back and bite them in the bum? Basically, now, looking at the employee side of things, I know, we've talked about what companies can do and have to do to change their approach to leadership. What are some new skills and talents that new workers entering the market now should be focusing on, and something that will benefit them in the future, and you know, for the next years to come?

Heather McGowan  17:31

Well, if the mindset shifts for leaders, it has to shift for employees as well. So you can't have autonomy and agency and be given trust, if you're not accountable, and you're not responsible. So you're not doing things anymore, because somebody's threatening you, you're doing things because you want to do them, you feel a sense of pride around them. You feel ownership over them. So you have to be driving your own career path. This has been true for a long time. But it's really true in this new paradigm. So you have to think about yourself and say, Well, I'm not just going to join some organization, and they're going to tell me where I'm going like, here's the escalator, step on it and have a good ride. It's not like that anymore. You're going to be forging your own path over, you know, what will probably be multiple industries, multiple business models, likely multiple companies. So how are you focused on what you're learning today and what experiences you're having today, that will better equip you for tomorrow, because the speed of change is such that it is important to learn as it is to earn because as I say, learning is the new pension or the new superannuation, it's how you create your future value every day and are very mindful of that, because now that's an employees or talents responsibility.

Sandra Redlich  18:46

Yeah, so definitely also a move from experienced or just, you know, CV education base to skill based, is that something that people should be keeping in their heads?

Heather McGowan  18:58

Yes, skill base. But the reality is the skills gap is never going to close. And the skills gap forms when a human demonstrates a skill and a market values that skill and access to supply. That's actually progress. So the idea that we're just going to have this deployable workforce, whether it'll be skills ready, is a little bit of a fantasy. I think, instead, we've got to find out how do we establish fundamental knowledge, foundational literacies and learning agility so that people can join organizations with the skills to do the job of today, and the ability to an inclination to learn the skills to do the job tomorrow. It's going to be learning, it's got to be part of work in that case, but individuals have to understand that they have to drive that as well.

Sandra Redlich  19:41

Yeah. Well, speaking of the work of tomorrow, the most exciting question of all, in your opinion, what will the future of work look like? What are the new trends? What are we supposed to be looking out for?

Heather McGowan  19:54

Well, I think with us, you know, the shifts to the change relationship between individuals and organisations. It's really the humanization of work. And that's incredibly exciting because I don't think we've been tapping our potential. I mean, when we treated humans like a cog in the machine, when we were on the factory assembly line, we were just getting such a small percentage of human potential in that transaction. And then we created sort of knowledge factories, and we did the same thing. Now, if we're looking at, well, the greatest value comes from human ingenuity. How would you treat that as the most important asset in your organization? And how would we unleash potential? Not just in like special people with special skills, but as many people as possible? That's pretty exciting.

Sandra Redlich  20:38

Yeah. And what's next for you? What are some of the next projects? You've mentioned your book, which is obviously a big one, what are you going to be focusing on for the next months, or in the next year?

Heather McGowan  20:51

Well, we got the book launch going on over the next month, I'll be doing a lot of podcasts and PR interviews around that. And then I got a flight tomorrow morning, going out to Arizona to speak to some CEOs out there. And so I do between four and 10, 12 events a month in the US all across the US and sometimes different parts of the world. So I'll be out there speaking. And from that, I learned a lot. I learned the responses, persons observation that they didn't know their people. Other words, you know how some of these conceptual ideas, hit the road in practical application and hit roadblocks as well. So I'm always on a learning journey. So that's what's up for me next.

Sandra Redlich  21:30

Yeah, amazing. Well, it's so fascinating to get your insights and great to see another female who's going out there and talking to the CEOs. And, you know, not just preaching, but also doing in the same course and learning over at the same time. So you have, it's very inspiring to see and hear about your journey and what you've been doing. Thanks for taking the time again, we'll make sure to put all these insightful links into our show notes to make sure that people can reach out if they have questions. Or you can learn some more by reading your books. And yeah, let's see what comes next. I'm sure we will have another chat maybe in the future to see how all of that we've talked about today has implemented in the actual workforce. So thanks for your time.

Heather McGowan  22:16

Excellent. I look forward to it. Thank you very much for having me.